Episode #1: Charlie Fisher
↓ English transcript ↓ ｜ Traduction en français
Charlie Fisher: More glitter on top - Queer music, maximalism and the meaning of pop
Gabriel Chesnet
Hi, I’m Gabi!
Cyd Levine
Hi, I’m Cyd!
GC
And this is Musicians’ Teatime.
CL
We’re so lucky to have our very first guest, who happens to be a member of Acid Airplane Records, Charlie Fisher, who has this wonderful bubblegum pop with synth-y undertones, it’s very nostalgic for children of the 2000’s, I really enjoyed listening to it. It’s genuinely fun to listen to.
GC
Yeah, I met Charlie in London a couple years back actually, and fell in love with their sound and general vibe. Having been an entertainer their whole life, first as a dancer, Charlie turned to that 2000’s pop and the sound of their childhood as inspiration for these fabulous and ethereal releases we’re going to cover over this interview. Despite a short career, I’ve seen it gain some nice traction over on social media from an insanely supportive and uplifting community. So let’s talk pop, feelings, artistry and coping with the times!
CL
Charlie’s latest release which I just listened to, City Pop, really makes you wanna get up and move, which is really refreshing in the times we live in, where you kinda wanna lay on the couch all day, so I’m really interested to hear them talk about it! Let’s get into it!
GC
Hello Charlie Fisher, and welcome to the first episode of Acid Airplane Records' Musicians' Teatime podcast. It's been a long time coming, and I'm glad to have you as my first guest!
Charlie Fisher
I can't believe I'm the first guest. What an honor.
GC
You are, actually. I mean, I've contacted a bunch of people and despite the situation, people seem to be pretty busy nonetheless.
CF
Yeah, I know. It's not fair. [GC: It's not fair.] It's not where are they getting all these things to do?
GC
Right, I'm just sitting at home... it's the European situation. But anyway, who are you, Charlie, what do you do? How would you describe yourself?
CF
Oh my God, I am... trying my best. That's the most important thing that people need to know about me, I try my best. And I am just a person making stuff and putting it out there.
GC
Making stuff, what do you do? How long have you been doing it?
CF
So I have been making music for... what year's this, 21? Like, a year and a half now honestly, it's really it's not been that long at all. But I've been writing for probably three or four years at this point. Yeah, and I just make dumb gay pop music. It's shamelessly basic, and I love it.
GC
Oh, but that's amazing. We've been waiting for it. So it's quite a short career you've been having, but it's been gaining traction.
CF
Yeah, I know. I know. Yeah, that's all I can really say. Yeah!
GC
You've been happy with it.
CF
Yeah, I've had a good month or so.
GC
So you put out a first few singles, and then last year, you put out this one amazing pun. Queerantine, is that it?
CF
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's like quarantine, but it's gay.
GC
Oh, is that how it's pronounced? Quarantine?
CF
Yeah, but I mean, you know, accents.
GC
So there was Queerantine. And then you went on to write, produce and go on with City Pop, is that it?
CF
Yeah. So City Pop- I wrote that song back in May. That song has been a really long time coming. I wrote it back in May and sat on it for a little while. Because, you know, at that time, I was working on my album, but I knew that I didn't want to put it on the record, because if I did, it would be rushed. And it wouldn't be the standard that I knew that had to be, so I sat on it for a little while, and then eventually got in touch with Boysim to produce it. And I was like, this is it. This is the girl, this is the one.
GC
This is the girl, that's the big one. But you had Dollar Perfume come out before.
CF
Yeah, that was last summer.
GC
And how would you describe all that? You know, this gay, sparkly pop? Did I put it right?
CF
Yeah! Yeah, it really is just that it's not big, and it's not clever, and it's not trying to be. Right?
GC
But how did you get it started? Like, what flicked the switch in your head?
CF
I've just always loved pop music. I've had to like, warn boys before in relationships, that I'm never gonna love them as much as I love pop music, we could be together for my whole life and it won't happen. You know, they've usually been okay with it, so that's all right. But yeah, I've always loved pop music. I always knew I wanted to make pop music, and I had no idea how to do it. Because I, you know, I trained as a dancer. I've worked as a dancer, that's my background, and had no experience in writing or producing or anything, but I sort of realized that to make pop music, I would have to write it. Because, you know, there was no one there. There's no one just popping into stranger's DMs like, "Here's a song, do you want to sing it?" Like, that's not a thing.
So I was like, okay, so I have to write songs in order to sing them. So I spent like two or three years writing songs, trying to the best of my ability to figure out what makes a good pop song. Then eventually, I was like, "Okay, I'm bored of not letting anyone hear any of this." So I started sort of... [GC: You put yourself out there.] Yeah, I put myself out there and started, sort of... Crapping content into the void that is the internet, in the hopes that it would drum up a little bit of attention in this modern music industry.
GC
It's kind of how it's done these days, isn't it?
CF
Yeah, it's the only way to do it. Isn't it?
GC
You've talked about writing songs as well. What's your writing process if you have any? I mean, I know I don't.
CF
Yeah, it's a really weird one. It depends what the catalyst is for the song, because like I said, City Pop was inspired by a playlist a friend had sent me of - I don't know if you know that type of genre - but city pop is the name of this obscure, late 70s Japanese genre of pop. [GC: Yes! Plastic Love!] Yeah, Plastic Love! Brilliant song, brilliant song. I just listened to a lot of that at the same time that I was listening to a lot of Donna Summer, and a lot of disco, like proper disco. And I was like, "I just want to live this for a little bit. I want to live this fantasy for a bit and make this kind of music for a while". So that's where that song came from. Another one, the next single that I've got coming out-- I don't know when this podcast is gonna air. When is this podcast gonna air?
GC
I'll be editing this week, and it should be out in early to mid February.
CF
Let's say that when this goes out, we won't be far off of an announcement for the next single, which is cool, because it's finished and it's ready. And that one came from- I was watching a video of Shangela, the drag queen, and the sound stopped working. And I saw her, like, spinning and I was like, "I want to write that song".
GC
Oh, that's a great origin story.
CF
It's ridiculous.
GC
You've got a lot on your plate as for writing songs.
CF
Yeah, I never stop. I never really stop writing songs.
GC
That's great, because inspiration can be really hard to come by for a lot of people.
CF
Yeah, it can. I sort of go through those phases, like everyone does. But it can come from anywhere. I guess I'm just lucky that I never treat anything as a stupid idea until I try it and it doesn't work., you know, but I'll try everything.
GC
I think that's good advice, actually. [CF: Yeah.] No stupid questions, no stupid ideas.
CF
Yeah, exactly. It's, yeah, fair enough. You'll try some things and they won't work, but that will happen with stuff that you think's a good idea as well. So you might as well indulge all of your sort of creative faults and let them happen. Because there's no obligation to release everything. So you might as well make what you're feeling the urge to make.
GC
I do feel that's kind of the Charlie Fisher spirit, to indulge.
CF
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm very indulgent.
GC
I was driving down the highway earlier, you know, to the B-52's Rock Lobster, loud... [CF: Oh yeah...] You know, rain pouring down, I was beginning to hydroplane. And I was thinking, I mean, this is the life. It was indulging- indulging differently.
So I mean, before you put out one of these songs, you're pretty maximalist, in what you do. And how do you sketch that out? Do you have like a MIDI keyboard? Or do you just, you know, record on the notes on your phone?
CF
(Laughs) So if I sort of write the song before I demo it, then yeah, it's a voice memo thing. I'll make a voice memo, mostly just so that I don't forget how it goes, and I'll write down the words, then I'll come back to it. And with some other things, I will produce a demo- because I'm not a producer, but I have produced some of my stuff. And I'll produce a demo on stupid, like, GarageBand on my phone, and I'll just see how that works.
GC
Hey, nothing stupid, no bad ideas.
CF
No bad ideas. It's a system that you know, works for me, but in the case of City Pop, I think I wrote it and I did the demo in the same day, because I was feeling manic that day. I did the demo on my phone, sat on it for like six months, and I sent it to my friend Alex - AlexZone - and I was like, "There's something missing from this and I don't think I can finish it with my skill set", all of that. He took one listen and went to send it to Boysim, it's got him written all over it.
GC
I do hear what your producers and various collaborators do, and it's pretty insane, the work they put, in the work you put in, it's a great synergy of people who want to make this high energy, beautiful sound that's really kinda bringing back that super fucking manic, 2000's, gay-aligned pop energy.
CF
Yeah, it's very that. I make sure that when I'm working with people, they understand that point of view. It's easy when I work with people that I knew before I worked with them, but I make sure that they sort of get that for me. There is no such thing as going too far with it. In terms of the energy and whatnot, it needs to serve the song, and if the song feels like it needs to go absolutely insane, then it does.
GC
So it's much more than just music, it's a total state of mind [CF: Yeah.] and something that you're pretty adamant should stay in line.
CF
Yeah, I think there's a sort of, especially with - not to make it all about City Pop again, buy City Pop on iTunes - but not to make it all about City Pop again, but in regards to City Pop and the other tracks that I've got sort of ready for release at some point this year; I very much imagine them all living in the same, like, cinematic universe, if that makes sense. [GC: I was about to say, yeah, the Charlie Fisher cinematic universe.] They very much inhabit the same world, and so they need to all go as hard as each other. They need to all feel like they belong. As a pop artist - this might be a controversial opinion - but I think that as a pop artist, as a pop singer, the singer is kind of the least important part of the puzzle. Everything needs to serve the song.
GC
So there's this whole universe behind it.
CF
Yeah. I want the song to sort of evoke the same visuals in the listener that it evokes in me when I wrote it and all of that stuff, which I think is probably quite common amongst pop creators, I think.
GC
Well, it depends. I mean, not everybody has the same kind of creative output and original ideas, but I think it pretty much ties back to you being originally an entertainer of sorts, as a dancer first, doing a bunch of shows. And I assume you were as high energy as you sound.
CF
Yeah! Yeah, God. I trained as a dancer, I worked in dance contracts, I did some musicals and all of that stuff. And that is entirely always about what you're giving to the audience. Because it's, you know, because it's right there. Because you're right there, and they are right there. There needs to be an exchange of energy, sort of. I've never thought about that before, actually, but I think that sort of approach does carry over to my music. I feel like there's an exchange of maybe not necessarily ideas, because it's not like I'm doing anything revolutionary with my music, and I'm not trying to, that's not my place. [GC: Just having fun.] Yeah, having fun and giving that fun to people and allowing them to sort of bask in it for a bit is... It's a powerful thing. It's what I love the most about pop music. And if you were to ask me my favorite artists, they would all be people who I think had that same approach, who gave off- whether it was joy or not, they gave off energy, and they let you live in that sort of moment with them.
GC
Well, pop isn't always about being joyful. There's sad pop, there's angry pop, there's emotional pop. I think that's what's powerful about it, as you say. [CF: Yeah, yeah, definitely.] Because you thrive off the energy that you give off and that you get back from your audience. [CF: Yeah.] And despite the live music industry being, you know, what it is right now, you've still managed to get a great amount of creative output. Where does it come from?
CF
Oh, God, where does it come from? I honestly don't know. I have no idea where it comes from. I think part of it is just that I really, really want to be good at this. So I think that that shows, and I think that informs the amount of like effort I'll put in and the amount of sort of pushing through any writer's block I feel or whatever all comes from the fact that I just really want to be great at this.
GC
So you're doing it no matter what.
CF
Yeah. Yeah, because I'll kind of go crazy if I'm not doing this, so I might as well be great.
GC
Then when it comes to the reception, are you anxious? What is it like being a queer artist in music?
CF
You know, I don't necessarily get anxious. But there's always that thing of looking at numbers and stuff, and using that as a sign of how good the song is. But this sort of queer pop community that I've become introduced to in the last year or so, since being locked inside for God knows how long is incredibly supportive, and wants everyone to do well. The people within that community, they're always going to hang on to like the good bit, and they're always going to remind you of the good bit. Even if you grow to not like a song, there'll always be someone within that community who's like, "I actually love that one".
GC
I think that's a very healthy mindset and community to grow and thrive in as a musician.
CF
Yeah, very much. I wouldn't be making the music that I am now if it wasn't for people like that, because I met all of my current collaborators through that community. I was encouraged to keep going when I didn't feel like it by people in that community. So yeah. It's a great little world to be a part of.
GC
So that world, that identity and that label of queer - or whatever you want to reclaim or not - is that something that you hold on to dearly?
CF
Yeah, I think it is. Part of it comes from the fact that, you know, it's very easy to find other people with similar outlooks to you in an approach to you when you use that label, because we're all sort of in it for the same reasons and whatnot; but also, I feel like even if I wasn't going about saying I'm a queer pop artist, I feel like non queer people would still be saying it about me. [GC: You think they would tell?] Please! Of course they'd be able to tell. So it's one of those things of like, "I'm gonna own it". And I'm happy to own it.
GC
So doesn't define you- Sorry to cut you off. [CF: No, no, it's fine.] So it doesn't define you. But it's something that matters as part of your identity as an artist and as a person.
CF
Yeah, completely. It certainly doesn't define me, but also then in some ways it does.
GC
I get what you mean because sometimes you can be tempted to say "it doesn't define me", but it also does help you find a sense of community [CF: Yeah, completely.], and owning up to what you are like, "deal with it". It's very 2000's-early 2010's to say it's "fabulous", but you know what I mean?
CF
Yeah. I remember when the when the song Born This Way came out, actually, I was obviously like, young, self hating gay. So I was like, "Ew, I don't like Lady Gaga". But now I look back at myself as a child and I was like, the biggest Steps fan on the planet - I still am - and I'd stan every girl band that would release anything. And it's like, "I really was born this way, huh". There was no changing me.
GC
So when you look back to that kid, they would be proud of you today? [CF: Yeah, yeah.] And now, you're working to make your future you also proud?
CF
Yes, I want to have a body of work that whenever I stop making music - which I'm sure will happen at some point, for however long there will be a period of my life where I'm not making music, because that's life - I would want to be able to look back on it and go, "that was worth it". Which I think every creative person would want. I don't think any creative person would want to look back on that time of their life has not being worth it. God knows I work hard enough at that shit. Am I allowed to swear? I'm so sorry. [GC: Yeah, of course.] Yeah, God knows I work hard enough at this shit that I want to be able to look back on it and go, "that's actually really good".
GC
That's such a great mindset to have. Because it kind of breaks the trope of the starving artist, you know, depressed, negative. I mean, everybody gets depressed and most artists are actually pretty fucking sad, but you have this you know, "fuck off, get out of the way, bitch" attitude about dealing with your problems.
CF
(Laughs) Yeah! I mean, yeah, I'm pretty fucking depressed. But like, that's my problem. That's no one else's problem.
GC
It's coping.
CF
Yeah, I think creating is maybe part of my way of coping with that.
GC
That's a very healthy thing, I think.
CF
You know what, there are much worse coping mechanisms I could have than making balls-to-the-wall pop bangers, you know?
GC
Well, I'm no therapist, but I think if it helps you, it'll help other people. As you said, pop can have many, many ways of having effects on people, having fun and not necessarily thinking really hard about the meaning of a 10 minute song or whatever. So, unwinding, that's something we need to learn to do more as musicians.
CF
Yeah, completely. I think there's something really powerful about a three minute song that can just make you feel very deeply for three minutes. There's like a catharsis there. I don't want to sound like, absolute internet poptimist, but like, I genuinely think Into You by Ariana Grande is one of the best songs ever written and ever produced because it just, it takes you right there. It takes you right there so intensely. You get so much out of that song, and that's my goal. If I can ever make anything as good as that, I'll be happy.
GC
Oh, that's beautiful. She definitely does have those chops at making pop that is... You know, these song structures aren't necessarily complicated. They're not anything brand new. But it's all about the energy and, you know what they say, the vibes.
CF
Yeah. I always say that about my music. I'm not out here trying to reinvent the wheel. But you know, the wheel has been so popular for so many years because it works.
GC
Just making a wheel with like, diamonds and sparkles on it.
CF
You know what I mean? Sometimes you just need to add some tassels to the wheel and it's a prettier wheel. (Laughs)
GC
Exactly, it's like Cinderella's... What do you call those again?
CF
Like the glass slippers? [GC: No, the thing that's tied to the horses.] Oh my god, yeah, the carriage. (Laughs)
GC
You're making the wheels to that gorgeous carriage. [CF: It's very that. (Laughs)] Is there anything else you'd like to add before we go over time?
CF
Yeah, buy City Pop on iTunes- or no, buy it on Bandcamp because I get more money if you buy it on Bandcamp.
GC
Bandcamp Fridays are still going on [CF: Yeah, I know!] I think they're gonna keep happening until they say otherwise., so if you do buy City Pop make sure to buy it on a Friday, on Bandcamp- and stream, stream anything by you, anywhere on your preferred platform.
CF
Yeah, stream. A stream's a stream, baby. Listen to my music. Yeah, it's everywhere-Spotify, Apple Music, you know, Tidal, whatever you use. I'm there. And yeah, follow me on social media and stuff. I'm a hoot.
GC
You're a hoot. That's true. [CF: It's true.] As you said, we can expect new announcements from you coming... [CF: Very soon.] Very soon.
CF
Yes. Very, very soon. Exciting. Exciting stuff.
GC
Amazing. Well, thank you for coming on and being a lovely person.
CF
Thank you for having me! Thank you.
GC
No problem! I do hope that these will keep being a thing, because this is fun, I had a great time drinking my tea. Although it's not really tea time because it's like 11pm, but...
CF
What, is it 11pm for you? Or 11 like, afternoon 11?
GC
No, 10pm. Yeah, it's 10. [CF: Okay. Oh, that's not so bad.] Hey, any time is teatime as long as you've got the tea.
CF
Any time is teatime if you try hard and believe in yourself.
CL
Musicians’ Teatime is a production of Acid Airplane Records, hosted by Gabriel Chesnet and Cyd Levine. All episodes come with a full transcript and translation into French on the Acid Airplane Records website. Thanks for tuning in today!